MetaCast

Dr. Rhanderson Cardoso: Hello, everyone, and welcome to MetaCast, the podcast of the Meta Analysis Academy. My name is Dr. Rhanderson Cardoso. I'm honored to have with me here today Dr. Ayla Gerk, who's a researcher, a physician, and has extensive research experience in global health and surgery. And she's going to tell us all about her career and opportunities that may be helpful to you as you think about how you can advance your own career. So, again, this is Metacast, the podcast of the Meta Analysis Academy.

Dr. Ayla Gerk: Yes, of course. But first of all, thank you so much for being here. I'm so honored and so excited, and I hope that whatever I share here today can help many people. So I'm Dr. Ayla Gerk. I was born here in the US, but my parents are from Brazil, so I grew up there, and I did medical school in Argentina. I graduated there. And since before graduating from medical school, I already started collaborating with research, and then I started research in Argentina and then in Brazil, and then I came to Boston.

And we can also talk about it in my program in the Program of Global Surgery and Social Change. I did my research fellowship there, and now I'm doing my master's and just fast-tracked to a PhD at McGill University. That's amazing. We're going to talk a lot about all this journey. So if you guys didn't catch that, you know, she's Ayla, she's doing a master's, is fast-tracked into a PhD at McGill in Canada.

She did a research fellowship here in Boston. She has extensive research experience even in Argentina. She's going to tell us all about this. Before we dive into that, I want to make a disclosure here that this podcast, the Meta Analysis Academy, is not affiliated with Harvard Medical School where I work or any of the institutions that Ayla mentions or that we discuss here in this program. And the Meta Analysis Academy, if you don't know, is a program where we teach methods, statistics, and writing of systematic reviews and meta-analysis.

We do not do research and publications for our students. We give you the tools so that you're able to apply this in your own career. And I've had a lot of folks come here and share their success stories, you know, related to meta-analysis and research. And today, Ayla is going to show us a different way of how you can succeed having done medical school in a foreign country outside the US and Canada, and she's done extraordinarily well. And she's going to tell us all about this story.

Dr. Ayla Gerk: Yes. I think it was one of the best choices and decisions I made, especially because I was also exposed to a different culture, different language, a different public health system, and health system.

So for that per se and the people there, it was amazing. What I did miss a lot was exposure to academia and research in my university. So I had to, with my friends, try to go above and beyond to try to search for that, elsewhere. But I was fortunate to have this connection in Argentina and already started doing research from medical school. So that was really, really valuable, and I'm really thankful for that.

Dr. Rhanderson Cardoso: Yeah. And this is directly applicable to our listeners from all over the world. I mean, people from India, from Pakistan, from Brazil, from even countries in Africa, Europe, you know, they may find it a struggle too to get research done in their own countries with limited opportunities, without the culture of research that exists in the US and Canada. Would you agree?

Dr. Ayla Gerk: Yes, it's really focused on residency. You will only excel if you have a good score in residency. They don't look into a holistic approach. Like, it's important for you to have a good academic perspective, a good research perspective, a good public health view. It's like, or you do well in residency or goodbye. You know? So they don't value the other things that should be valued as well. They teach you the skills to be a doctor and be a good surgeon. But, you know, like, in terms of actually operating or actually interacting one-on-one with the patients, but you end up missing out on the evidence-based part of medicine and, of course, creating that evidence as you do research too. What motivated moving from Brazil to Argentina to do medical school there?

Dr. Ayla Gerk: Yeah. So I always the I was born in the US, so this was already a reason this transition of country and experience in language, and I benefit so much from that. So since in Brazil, I wanted to go back to the US or go to a different country. I had that need to explore different languages and be exposed to different countries. And Argentina at the time seemed a really viable solution because it was a 3-hour flight.

I was 16 when I graduated from high school, so it was close to home. 16 when I graduated from high school, so it was close to home. It's a different language, but not that different. So it was a viable option. So it was Nice.

Just the right choice at the time. Were you in Buenos Aires? I was in Buenos Aires. Nice. Good.

And then you got involved in research there despite the barriers, despite the difficulties. Tell us, how did you, do research even, during medical school or after in Argentina? Yes. So during medical school, like I mentioned, it's hard to seek opportunities, so you have to be really proactive. So that was one of the ways I was able to get this opportunity.

And once I got it, I grabbed it, and I did above and beyond. Like, this mentor of mine, she is a director from an NGO for rare diseases in Argentina, and she sent an email to medical school students in my university. I immediately replied saying I wanted to be part of it, a formal email, like a beautiful email saying I want to be part of this. And she sent me a small task. Okay.

Can you review this rare disease in 1 month? I did it in 1 week. I was like, I really wanna be part of this. And even before I graduate, 1 week before graduating, she already said, if you wanna join as a research coordinator from the organization, please do so. We really want you here.

So I think it's like that proactiveness of wanting and being part of something. So that's key. It's, what I like to call that, you know, over delivering. You know? I mean, I said it's not myself, of course.

It's a term that's widely used for this. You know, you even in the small tasks, you go above and beyond, you know, what is expected of you. That really pays you a dividend, and it helps you tremendously. So, you stayed on as a research coordinator after finishing medical school for this organization? Yes.

So then I continued as a research coordinator for her, and also she invited me to work as a clinician there. She I will teach you everything I know. I will be your mentor here. If you wanna stay how like, the time you wanna stay, you're welcome. This is your home.

And she was also creating a database platform to enhance because rare diseases, there's, like, more than 8,000 different rare diseases. So and, usually, the physicians don't know anything. So she created a database on where patient and provider can enhance a relationship, and you could just the provider can enter there and understand more about that disease and what would be the needs of that patient and what exams and tests. So it was like a really complex database. So she invited me also to be the project manager of the debt, organization and then research coordinator of all the studies that were going out of that.

So I really got involved in that organization. Continue working together, and she continued being a mentor for me. So, yeah, it was really special. That's amazing. How long were you there as a research coordinator after medical school?

For 4 years because yeah. Until last year, until I joined the research fellow and the masters, I told her I have to back up a little bit. Like, I can't be that active anymore, and then we transitioned to finding a new person. And but since then, I And when and when did you make that transition, to the North America, to the US and Canada?

How was that then? Yeah. So, also, while I was working in that organization, I also collaborated with the program in global surgery and social change, through team Brazil. They have different teams, all around the world. And, as having a background in Brazil and understanding the medical system, my mom is also a physician in Brazil.

So understanding the system there, I also sent a cold email back then to them. I I can you know, like, sending my CV and formally introducing myself. Is there any opportunity for me? And they invited me to join the team, and it was in 2020. So it was right when I joined the rare disease, organization.

I also joined team Brazil. And, I really wanted to be part of this team and come to the US because I'm originally from here. My brother lives here. It's also a place that gives a lot of opportunities for research. Right.

So I I I thought it would be a good choice. That's that's phenomenal. So, can you explain to folks a little bit more about this program? Yes. And, yeah, just because it's, I see it's such as an incredible opportunity in terms of global health opportunities for research for people who are in Brazil and Argentina and other countries in the world.

So it it it would be great to have your insight as an insider. Yes. Of course. So the Harvard program in global surgery and social change is, a new field. Although global surgery, we understand it before it is a field, it started in 2015.

It's a part of global health where we focus on strengthening surgical systems worldwide. So it's this concept of how to understand the gaps of a surgical system and how we can enhance them and how we can, make it better through research, policy, and advocacy. So this concept in this field started in 2015, and they had afterward the Lancet Commission in Global Surgery and started the program here through Harvard Medical School. And, they have 2 types of modality for those who want to be involved. There's a research collaborator, which is a 1-year track where you go as a as a medical student even or after graduating medical school.

You can go there and be 1 year exposed to this experience and developing skills and research and policy and advocacy while strengthening surgical systems and while understanding surgical systems worldwide. And there's also a second option for those who are ready during resident surgery or surgeons, then they can do the 2-year, fellowship at the program. And there's also, like, you can already be a surgeon and go there as a research scholar or as a faculty. There's other modalities for those that are already surgeons as well, but it's an amazing experience. So so that program is based out of Harvard.

It's a global, global health and, an initiative to advance surgical systems around the world, like you said. And, the research fellowship specifically that you mentioned, the 1 year is for for students and people who are interested. Is is that physically here, or is that something that people work, remotely from all over the world? So it's physically here. They suggest you have to be in Boston or in any of the institutions that they collaborate with because you it's locally based, but you go to other countries.

You're exposed to other experiences. They have many collaborations because the concept of global surgery is that it has to be locally led and by the local champions. Makes sense. So it doesn't have to be a Harvard thing. They just provide the support and instruction and experience to help, but and the collaborations, but it's something local led.

So you can come to Boston to do the year, but then you can also go to these other countries to have the exposure and the experience and learn from them as well. And your in your case specifically, it seems like you joined a few years ago. And, were you it seems like you were doing the research coordinator in Argentina and involved in the Harvard Surgery Program. How did you manage that? Did you have to come to Boston sometimes?

Were you leading anything locally in Argentina? How did that work? Yeah. So the officially pro the official track is locally based, and it's the 1 year or 2 years depending on, the level of your career. But then you can also, like I said, they want it to be locally led.

So you can also have collaborators worldwide. The team Brazil, we are independent collaborators to the program. So that's how I joined. I joined as a medical student there. And now, it it increased a lot the interest.

So now we're also doing application base every year. We open application process for Team Brazil for students from Brazil to join and have the experience through Brazil. But then it's not affiliated with Harvard, but it's a collaborator through Harvard. So all these years, I was collaborating with With team Brazil from this program. Got it.

And then last year, I officially joined the program, and then I was affiliated to the Harvard system. For people who are interested in this, you know, worldwide, not just in Brazil, if they wanna apply for the 1 year fellowship, whether they come to Boston or they're one of these affiliates worldwide, how can they apply? So there is also an application process. Every year they open, it's around this time, July to August, and, it's usually a standard application. You send your personal statement, your CV, your letter of recommendations, and then, they have a 2 interview process.

But every year, they open the selection process, and it's on their website. I don't know if there's a place to put links. And if you want, I can share the links that they Yeah. Of their website. And there, you have all the instructions and all the materials needed for the application process.

Yeah. If you don't mind, send it to me. I'll try to either add it to this podcast or at the very least, send it to everyone who sends me a direct message on Instagram asking for this. Yes. Perfect.

This is great. So, I this is a great example that, you know, you were in South America, in Argentina. I'm sure, you know, your family in Brazil. So between Argentina and Brazil during these 3 to 4 years after medical school, and you got involved in a lot of impactful research in rare diseases in Argentina, helping with the global surgery initiative from Harvard while you were as part of team Brazil. In terms of, results of this research exposure, in terms of, like, publications, abstracts, connections, which are are more, harder to measure, can you just give an overall sense of how this was transformative or helpful in your career, these 3 to 4 years as a research coordinator and, as part of the team Brazil?

Yes. No. Of course. So, of course, there is, like, the tangible, the estimate and the outputs, but I can't even measure the amount that I grew because, like, I had no experience with research whatsoever. And, in these 4 years, I grew so much as a person and as a professional.

And just to put in numbers also on outputs, in the last year, for example, we published more than 12 articles. We did 2 op-eds in journals, including the Washington Post. We did, 4 viewpoints and and commentaries and correspondence in The Lancet, Global Health, The Lancet Regional Americas, The Lancet. So we have those numbers also to have an an output, but it's just a overall representation of all the hard work we put in, and it all comes from the proactiveness and you wanting and you going after. And so it's it's I learned so much, and I'm so grateful for it.

That's incredible. That's amazing. You mentioned some really high, high impact, like publications there. You mentioned The Lancet, in the op-eds, in, like, The Washington Post and others. That's and this is all results of the the work that you led either over there in Argentina or in as part of the global surgery program.

Yes? Both. And the Lancet Global Health, we did a commentary involved with both organizations. I tried to tie it up both showing how, you know, you need, rare disease also have a component of surgery, and it also should be access in a correct way, in a safe way, in a timely way. But many were through the the program in global surgery and social change and now through my master's at McGill.

But it's an overall of all the work I have put in these organizations. And then in addition to publications, the impact that you had in this actual work, tell us a little bit about this, collaboration in Ecuador that you had. Yeah. No. This was a transformative experience, to be honest.

At first, I was reluctant because I was joining my masters. I was joining the fellowship, and my mentors were like, be careful. That will be too much for you. It will be a lot. Be careful what you get.

And I was like, no. Okay. Just a lit. Like, I'll but I can never do a little. I go, like like I said, above and beyond, and I just emergent experience.

So to explain a bit, what happened is the program in global surgery and social change at Harvard Medical School, they one of the main components is the National Surgical Obstetrics and anesthesia plans. So what they do is they create, they do a situation analysis of the country all the time with the local champions led by the local governments, led by the Ministry of Health in collaboration with the vice presidency and the presidency. So they do this in a way that we have these tools that that we can try to assess the situation of surgical system in your country, and then we can create a minimal and a plan with you to understand how to strengthen the gaps that we find. So in this case, it was interesting because it came from the vice president of Ecuador, and he's a neurosurgeon. And he was like, he understood the importance of strength and surgical system in his country.

He was like, I want to collaborate with you guys to create this plan in my country. So he went to the Harvard program, and I was in Latin America lab. So as a research collaborator, I have I helped my team, to so we could analyze, the main components and together create this plan. But through that, we attended many high-level meetings, and we had contact with many people and to with the vice president, and he's incredible. And it was just a great experience to be exposed to and understand that research is also a way to implement policy and advocate for change.

So it was seeing that, like, vivid. It was incredible. Yeah. That's a whole branch of research is policy and advocacy. I know, I'm involved, for example, in the Society of Cardiovascular Computed Tomography, which is my area of, cardiac imaging.

And even then, they have a branch. All these societies, American College of Cardiology, I'm sure, American College of Surgeons, like, all these have, like, divisions that, that help us, promote, you know, and and do an advocate for policy change and do advocacy. Yes. And I I know people who are interested in that and this policy can get involved in research and that is all. And you're a great example of that.

And and it's the way that when you have the data, the problem sometimes is when we don't have the data to show where are the problems. But when we have the data, the research can help us advocate for the problems and transform change and then follow-up. So research is so important in many other ways that we'd never imagined, so it's just incredible to also be exposed to that experience. That's amazing. So after you did all of this in in Argentina and you did the global health, program in team Brazil, you had the research and publications.

You had the connections. Can you talk about why you didn't decide to go? I know you're gonna talk about your goal of doing surgery eventually as a as a residency in as residency in career. But can you talk about why you didn't necessarily, go straight into that after building a robust research, and instead you chose to do, a postgraduate training program, a master's, now a PhD? How did you make that decision?

Yeah. First, passion. Of course, I'm really passionate about it as well. But also when I graduated, on medical school while I was doing the research, I was also working on medical departments and ER. And although I was trying to do my best, I knew that many times I was limited by the resources I was living and the the the environment I was at.

So that was when I saw that research could change that and that collaborations could change that and having a track that I could later on be the best surgeon and give back to my country and other countries in a way that could strengthen and then we would be able to give our patients everything we can. So when I saw that, I was like, I'm not going to save the world, but at least I can finish this research I have in mind and become not only a better surgeon because that also creates strength, discipline. It also strengthens your application without doubt, but also give you a different mindset and maturity. But also I would become a better individual, and I wanted to do that before joining surgery because I know once I join residency, it will be full on. So I wanted to go through that and strengthen my not only my application, but myself as an individual.

That's amazing. And, so you did join the master's program. Tell us, how, a little bit about that. You know, you actually completed it already, and, at McGill University. Do you mind sharing about the master's program?

Of course. So, among all all of this, I was I I met my mentor, an adviser now, and he used to be a huge. He is still an idol, but now he's my mentor and adviser at McGill. And then we connected and then I joined, McGill, but I didn't finish the masters because at McGill, you have the option to fast track to PhD. So, that's how I did the transition.

I just did the exam because you have to present an exam. And then because this is something I'm sure because this is something I didn't know that exists, that you can start your masters, and then you can immediately pass convert it to a PhD. And the years that you did your master will serve for your PhD. So instead of being at, like, a 5 year PhD, it'll be a 3 year PhD, let's say, because then you will use your master's year for that. So so it's 1 year of the masters, but then an additional 3 years, it seems like, or 2 years?

Yes. And McGill is 2 years of masters, so it's a 2 year of masters and then a 2 year p it depends also on what's your thesis and what are you working on and how extended your project, and that will vary the amount of time you will have left for your PhD. But it would be, yeah, a 2, 3 year. A lot of people internationally, they wanna learn about these opportunities. Something that always comes up when I have conversations with, people who follow me, ask questions about this is about tuition, whether, like, you have to pay or that you get a stipend.

Like, how does it work in a master specifically McGill, in terms of, like, the financial piece of it? Yeah. So this was besides, like I mentioned, having met my idol and then he became my adviser at McGill University. Another main, reason I also chose McGill is the support they give to students. At the time, I was divided between joining the Miles per hour at Harvard Medical School and going and doing my master's at McGill University.

And at McGill, the supervisor has to, like, sign a consent that he will support you or he will find ways that you will be able to apply for, funding, and then he will support you on that way. So today, I'm not only have a full scholarship at McGill, but I also have stipends to live there. And and yeah. So it's it's a great common, a great opportunity, and I really recommend for people to also open their minds and know that these opportunities exist in other countries. That's super.

And did you, apply for this directly or is this a connection that you made through this specific person? And then, in addition to just answering your particular case, let's answer this, like, broadly to other people who are interested in a master's and PhD at McGill, for example, which is a phenomenal university. How can people apply to that? Yeah. So, the masters for public health here in the US is through the sofa system.

I'm just giving you a rather context because I had no idea, and it was a lot of research into it. So it's a portal called Sophas because of, public health. And then at McGill is through a different system. They it's through their own portal and own website and system, and then you apply there. But it does have, something that you have to identify a mentor or an adviser that would receive you if you're doing the thesis track.

So that's how I identify my my supervisor and mentor, and he sponsored me to to be there. So you have to connect with this person independently and then apply? Yes. Or you can apply and then also, meanwhile, try to find a supervisor inside where you could do your research with. Okay.

Alright. So, again, SOWFA is a a platform to apply for master's degree for public health positions in the United States. I did a master's at, Bloomberg School of Public Health at Hopkins, and I also had to apply through that even though, like, being in an internal candidate. I was doing a fellowship in cardiology at the time. But, it's a platform where you get to apply, submit your documents, and then you go for the the screening and triage process selection process.

Yes. How would you like the the masters, the the training that you've had there so far, McGill? I love it. I I really love the experience and most of all to be in the lab that I fortunately matched in through my supervisor. And, it has been incredible experience and being exposed to different research, different methods.

It's it it has been really enriching. So, yeah, I've been really fortunate. And your research there is also in global health and global surgery? This was a third reason that I chose, McGill. It was because they have a global surgery as one of their thesis and components there.

So, the name of the of the it's a master's in science. It's not a master's in public health, the one I'm doing. It's a master's in science in surgical interventional sciences, and they have different tracks, including surgical innovation, which is something really exciting. They have, patient provider, and and patient education and surgical education, and they have global surgery, which is the track I chose. Nice.

This is great. The PhD, you're excited for that? I mean, for this, next chapter? Yes. I'm I'm a little bit scared.

I see a lot of memes on the Internet saying how you started and how you left PhD. So I'm scared, but I'm really excited. And I might continue, my master's, that I started. So to be more specific, it's in global surgery, but I'm looking into intersectionality and how that impacts pediatric, surgery and pediatric patients worldwide, and especially in Brazil because my research has always been in Brazil and Latin America. Nice.

So I'm continuing it at PhD. And, yes, I'm really excited about it. That's great. Wait until you see the memes on before and after general surgery. Yes.

I saw those too. So, eventually, that is the goal, right, to apply for general surgery residency, then, pediatric surgery? Yes. Exactly. So, while I'm doing my master's in PhD, I'm also doing the whole USMLE process that I know many, who are listening are also on this process.

And, and once I finish, I'll be applying for the match process for GenSurg here in the US. How do you balance all of this? I mean, you you did the master's and you also, did the research fellowship. You're looking into residency in the United States. You were doing the helping out in Ecuador at the time.

Like how just give us give the listeners a word of advice on just balancing time and priorities. It's just incredible what you've done and accomplished so far. Thank you. First of all, it's it's a lot of passion, like working with what you love, also motivates you and make you want to do everything and administer everything. But I don't wanna sound cliche, so I will give other tools besides passion that also helped me a lot, was having a great team.

Like, having a team that supports you and having clear communication with this team and knowing how to also delegate, but also administer your time and prioritize your needs. So that was a key component that also helped me to be able to do both, have a great support system, people that are there for you, not only for the work, but also to take you out of work sometimes because you can get to immerse. And so, these are things that I feel sometimes are not talked enough about the backstage of having a great team and a great support system. And, yes. And and also, I won't lie.

It was a lot of many nights without sleep and, a lot of dedication I had to do and but it it was paid off. I I I because at the end of day, I loved it and I loved doing it. Yeah. You bring up a great point that I think it's important for us to be honest and transparent with people. It's we talk a lot about the importance of balance and, you know, having, you know, time with family, of course, personal time and and doing well at work and putting in the work.

But if you have to build a career like the one you've built, you know, like many of the people that come here on Metacast, it requires some periods of our life where things just aren't balanced as much as we'd like. You know, that you're just doing overtime and triple time and, you know, just putting in the work that's needed to achieve a goal that's important. There's just no way around that. Yeah. It's a lot of sacrifices.

And many times I would feel like the Rubik group, the cube, the. But I would fix one side and then the other would just be all this stuff. And many times I wouldn't feel that everything was aligned, but it was continuing and not giving up and being okay today. This might not be the best, but I'll try. I'll always do my best.

Sometimes you can't do the best, but you can always try to do your best. And I think that's what matter at the end of the day. Yeah, that's true. And then in that sense, you know, the social, the support that we have from family, from partners, from friends is really important for whatever time there is left, you know, from from these busy times that we're in in terms of professional, aspirations that, you know, that you have that support and people that, are with there with you and they're important to you, guiding you, and helping you along the way. No.

Definitely. Definitely. Awesome. The re you've done so much in terms of research that, you know, there's so much more still to talk about. So tell us a little about the research fellowship that you did in parallel with the master's degree.

Yes. So it's the the program in global and surgery and social change. That was the the fellowship I I did while I was doing my masters. And, like I mentioned, it's it's focused in global surgery and the benefits not only for having exposure, not only to research, but also policy advocacy is also for those who are interested. I work in team Latin America and team Brazil because it's where I understand did better the surgical systems and the health systems and where I wanted to do most of my work at.

But there are also many other countries that, and many other incredible work there. And that's one of the things that I really loved when I applied for this program is the exposure to work in collaboration with anywhere in the world and understand other health systems, but also other methodologies. They have, they do a lot of systematic reviews, but they also do a lot of innovation, studies and research. And also they do, geospatial analysis. They have, like, different methodologies applied.

They finance. They also use finance to assess, health systems. So there's, like, different components of research that you get to learn, which is nice because then you can apply for whatever you choose in your life and your career. You just, reminded me of a question here that is you've been through so many different programs and opportunities. And I'm sure that you when you joined these programs, you didn't necessarily yet have all the skill sets needed to do well in them.

Can you talk a little bit about how you developed those skills if it was mostly, like, taught to you directly when you joined the program and you had guidance, or you sort of, like, had to go after it yourself and and figure out the tools that you needed to do well in the program, or I would imagine a mix of those things of being proactive and having the appropriate mentorship and guidance. Because I wanna give people realistic expectation. You know, they're coming into a research fellowship, let's say, in Boston here. You're coming from Brazil. Sometimes I I I worry that people think that they're gonna have it all handed to them, you know, and that's not the way it is.

And I'd love to hear your thoughts on that. 1st, I will be even more real. I would say that I still don't have all the skills necessary pretty well. For what it's needed, but there will all be something that you will your boss will ask you to do and you don't know, and you will have to go and learn it. So there's, like, a lot of things that you will always be exposed to that.

And you have to you can't be in your comfort zone forever. Like, oh, I know this. I will just work with this. It's important also to be exposed to things that you don't know how to work with. And like you mentioned, it's a lot of going after.

There's different ways. Of course, there's some, environments that you will be given courses, that you will be given opportunities. At PGSSC, they would give us a stats course for us to do and things like that. They would support in that way or any geospatial course opportunity they would, offer. But there was a lot of things that I had no idea how to do, and it's being humble to be open and saying I don't and also going after and learning how to do so.

These are a couple of things, like going after going after courses. There are a lot of courses available, everywhere, and and being exposed to that and looking after that and going after that, but also with your peers and talking, can you teach me this? There's, like, probably a skill that they have and you don't. So also this exchange of experiences and knowledge being humble to know that you don't know it all, but you can try to know it all. You know, not you can always try to do your best and learn and always learn.

So it's it's, like you mentioned, is knowing that you won't come here and it'll be all handed handed to you. It's it's you have to bring something to the table, and you have to come knowing that that if they are calling you, it's not only that they will be giving you stuff, but you also have to give stuff. So at least your interest, proactiveness, and lot knowledge, and the wanting to to learn and know. Yes. Totally.

What other skill sets do you think would be besides this proactiveness? What other skill sets do you think would be important for people to do well in research positions in in in this, specific time period, which is when a lot of students get into research projects between finishing med school and starting residency. What else should people do to to do well in these, research opportunities? Yes. One key one that sometimes we don't talk enough is, like, soft skills.

I do think that people should practice on their soft skills, and it's really important and will open opportunities not only in research, but also in the application process and during residency and with your patients and with your family and everything. Soft skills is something. Do you mean, like, communication? Yes. Okay.

Leadership, perhaps. Exactly. Those are some examples. And did you think that learning those or acquiring those requires any formal training or mostly, you know, doing, like, doing it, getting feedback. I think that's another one.

Like, how do you suggest people develop those? Yes. Exactly. I think there are courses and there are ways of learning it and reading about it, but also being exposed to it and engaging with others and being received for feedback and having mentorship. I think mentorship is a crucial component in this journey and being a mentor, but also, you know, being a mentee.

So having these two sides of the coins are also really important. Yeah, totally. And, and then also, one thing that is really important and I have to do it, learning systematic reviews in my master's. I entered and I I couldn't get away of it. I had to do 2 systematic reviews for my master's and then my PhD, and it will follow you through your whole journey.

And, stats is important. I'm still not my forte, but it's it's learning how to be independent on your research, and that's something that it's really important. And also another thing that writing, like, develop a good scientifical writing. And sometimes we feel like writing is just writing and it's not it's not. And and the but you met you touched a huge crucial point is receiving feedback and knowing how to receive feedback.

So And asking for any and asking for it because sometimes people won't, directly provide that to you. Yes. Yeah. So, I Ayla just said something that's really critical in my opinion, which is to develop independence. You know, even if you are inserted in amazing programs like the ones that Ayla described, people will not be there to hold your hand all the time.

And and in some place and and Ayla's been fortunate and also, done well enough that she's been able to insert herself in really these great programs, research programs. But not all research fellowships or not all, research opportunities will have, this track record of, like, really giving the support you need to do really well. So no matter where you are, whether you're getting more support or less support, you have to make it happen and the way you do that is you learn how to be independent, you learn how to do statistics, you learn the writing, you learn, systematic reviews and meta analysis. You could join our program. We'll teach you that, for example, but you have to take it upon your own, risk you have to take responsibility for developing the skill sets that will ultimately lead to publications with the publications, the connections, and just showing people that you're good at what you do, that you're able to do research.

And you stand out. You stand out. Yeah. Yeah. No.

And it's it's so different when you own your work and you know what to do. And even when you receive the response to the reviewers, like, you own that work. You're independent on it. You know how to do it. You know how to start.

You know how to defend it. You know how to finish it. Yeah. And, that's important not only for your research, but also to reflect on any environment you're at. This is a person you want in your program and in your team because it's a person that it's adding up to to your team.

So For sure. Speaking of standing out, tell us about this award, this 40 under 40 award. Yes. I was so surprised because, yeah, I applied with not many expectations because we receive more noes than yes in our lives. So sometimes you're just, okay.

I'll apply the no I already have. I'll go for the yes. You know? And and I received it, so I was actually really excited once I I got to know that I was recognized as one of 40 of under 40. By who?

Like, who who gave this award? It's the Boston Congress of Public Health, and, it's an annual, award. And this year, the 2024, I'll be receiving it. So it's it's really exciting. Yes.

Congratulations. That's that's big. That's big. Yes. So, you have still a few years of the PhD program.

Let's talk a little bit about the career that you envision after you do the training. Obviously, in in surge general surgery residency, you're gonna be very busy learning surgical skills. It's a skill that requires a lot of practice, not just to learn it, but you keep it later on. So you will always, be, a surgeon, meaning, like, you will operate. You will spend a significant amount of time in the operating room and taking care of patients.

Yeah. How do you see, research in your future career, like, the midterm and long term part of your career? Yeah. No. I do see myself, doing both.

I know it won't be able to do a 5050, like but I do want to keep I want to be an academic surgeon. I want to have because as more as I get involved as research, the more I understand that will be helping my patients. So I do understand research as a critical component for my career, but I do love to be with patients and they are the main point why I also do all of this. So, yeah, I will discover on the way how I can combine both, but being here also encouraged me too, because I see that it's you're it it's possible to be an academic surgeon and looking to my mentors and seeing that they were able to do both on different percentages and different timelines, but I want to take this forward while I'm doing surgery as well. And global surgery initiatives too.

Right? I mean, that's something so incredible. You can't you I hope you never give that up. No. I I can't.

I can't give it up. It's something that I'm truly passionate about, and, yeah, it will continue with me. This is such an incredible story. I I'm looking forward to the future chapters. And as you go for your PhD and apply for residency, I mean, we were just talking about this before we started the recording, you're gonna have such an amazing application.

It's, it's gonna be you're gonna be an incredibly competitive candidate. I'm sure I hope you are excited about about this application season in the coming few years for you because it's gonna be a good one. Thank you. Thank you. I hope so.

Thank you so much. It's gonna be great. What advice do you have, Ayla, for people who look at your story like this and they they're inspired by you? People who may be in different countries around the world, maybe even Argentina, other countries in South America, countries, you know, in Asia, people who don't see the same research opportunities that they have that we that med students have here in the US or or in Canada, but they wanna follow in similar footsteps. You know, we've talked about some of this throughout the talk, but just like if you could give some advice for people.

Because I think once you get momentum, you know, like, if things just start happening, you do well Yeah. And then you have to make connections and then another opportunity happens. But then what about getting started? Yeah. No.

I wish I knew all of this while I was in my early stages of medical career. I see some students now starting, like, in their 2nd year, 3rd year in medical school. And I'm like, wow, that's incredible. And I wish I knew it early. So whatever I can do to pass this along to future generations that you're able to do it from your room in wherever country you are and your medical school or wherever country you are.

So and thankfully, the Internet gave us that. There are a lot of possibilities to collaborate in many organizations and many research programs being from wherever you are and and and being whatever skills you have. Because I also started, cause that's another thing. Like, when we're starting, we're so scared and we think I don't have those skills to apply, but you always have something to offer. You just have to discover that.

Totally. And sometimes it's being where you are, like collecting data from your hospital and Your passion. And so understanding that it's the main point. You don't have to have all the skills to start. You just have to want, have the will.

Who has the will has the way. So you just have to have the will And, understand that there are many opportunities out there. The Internet flows with opportunities. You see it in Mentor. You see it in Instagram.

You follow people who inspire you, who are also always sharing resources. I always share resources of opening for students. There is an incision who's an organization for students or FMSA. There's gender equity initiative in global surgery. Like, there's many organizations for students who provide these opportunities, these networkings.

And once you're there, you start understanding of this world. Yeah. So this is one of the things is, being exposed to the opportunities. The other is having the confidence that you can go wherever you wanna go with whatever you have. You just have to want it.

And then also, if you really think there's no opportunity for you on what you want and like, that's innovation. Like, if you understand that there's a gap and, you you know, there's nothing you want in the world when they'll create it. I know many friends of mine, they didn't have a gender equity chapter in their university, so they created one. And they started doing research about it in Brazil, and they started doing research about it in Argentina. So also creating these opportunities is also a great way.

And as a student, you can do this. So it's it's it all depends on us on this spark and and having the confidence to do so. And I think these were a few things that back then were, what got me started. But also, I would say it not always flow. Many times, I would say, most of the times, there were noes and closed doors, and it's just keeping keep going on after especially after the no.

Because it's really easy to keep going on when you have all the doors open and all the yeses and but it's what create resilience and strength. It's when you receive that no, and then you make your application better. You understand where you fail. You do better. So that's when I learned most was when, at the beginning, there were, like, closed doors, closed doors, closed doors.

So I would go after courses and capacitate myself. I would, oh, I have a limitation on this, so I'll study this. Oh, my writing is not good. So, and then I'll connect with other people. So that's what also is an important component.

So I think I said 4. Right? Yeah. These are amazing. I I I really like all this advice, the resilience, the important to persist.

Yeah. You know, your career so far and my own and others that have done well, it it's it's there there are setbacks too. There's always, things that we wish we could have done better, done differently, But you learn from those experiences and you and you move forward and you you just gotta keep on pushing. Yeah. Yeah.

It's not a linear process. Right? There's there's, disappointments along the way. It's not. It's more like a roller coaster.

Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Well, this is great. It's fantastic.

I I'm again, I'm very, I'm inspired by your story. You know, it it it's quite easy for people who, to to turn to the the limitations of their environment. Oh, I'm in a medical school that doesn't support research. I tried asking for research opportunities to a local mentor, and they didn't help me out. Or I started a project, and it went nowhere because the ethics committee didn't approve it and just, like, stop.

It's very easy to to attribute, our our not failures. That's a strong word. But, you know, our our lack of, success, to put it in a different way, to the environment. But I think what your what your story tells me above all is just, taking ownership and responsibility and seeking the opportunities and doing really well once you have them. You mentioned that a few times and and then with these opening doors in your career And seeing the barriers as opportunities to create the change.

So that's something that yeah. Yeah. It makes for a great story later on. Oh, you know, you came from Brazil and Argentina, and now you're doing research at Harvard and McGill University and soon general surgery residency, pediatric surgery fellowship, and all of this. It's gonna be fantastic.

Well, thank you so much. This was great. Your story is such an inspiration. I look forward to seeing next chapters in your career. No.

It's a it's a huge honor. You have no idea how honored I am to be here and meeting you in person. You're such an inspiration and the incredible work you're doing and all you're giving back to many medical students worldwide. Every conference I go, I see people from Medica as in it's incredible. It's it's it's it's amazing.

So Thank you so much. And if you guys wanna learn how to do some of this, research work independently with autonomy, make sure to join the meta analysis academy. You know, in our program, we teach you methods, writing, statistics, of course, geared towards systematic reviews and meta analysis. And, Ayla just showed us a beautiful story of how you can find other alternatives. You know, she says that she's involved in some systematic reviews, but clearly this wasn't the main the backbone of her research.

You know, she did, she followed a unique way. But the systematic reviews and meta analysis offer a gateway, an opportunity for you to start. I was just doing a medicast here with Marcelo and, Andre, who are 3rd 5th year medical students, and they've have 10 publications, most of them as first authors in meta analysis. So if you guys wanna learn how to do this, join the addition of the meta analysis academy. Make sure to follow us on YouTube, on Instagram, watch the other meta cast episodes, some incredible talents, incredible histories, the stories I've brought here.

And today, I had the opportunity of having Dr. Ayla Gerk to tell us her beautiful story. Thank you so much, Al. No. Thank you. Thank you so much.

Alright. See you, guys.